66: Why an Understanding of Jesus Is Lord is Central to Movemental Ministry - Interview with Alan Hirsch

Welcome to the Dare to Multiply Podcast. Today I have the privilege of speaking with Alan Hirsch — author of twelve books, founding director of Forge Mission Training Network, and a thought leader in the world of movements. Alan, welcome.

Thank you, Cynthia. It's a joy to be here.

Alan, you've described six key elements of what you call "Movemental Christianity." And you put "Jesus Is Lord" right at the center of it all. Why is that confession so foundational?

Because everything else flows from it. If Jesus is Lord, then Caesar is not. If Jesus is Lord, then my career ambitions don't get the final word. If Jesus is Lord, then the way I use my money, my time, my influence — all of it comes under his authority. It's the most revolutionary political and personal statement a human being can make.

The six elements are: Jesus Is Lord at the center, then Disciple Making, Missional-Incarnational Impulse, Apostolic Environment, Organic Systems, and Communitas. But here's the thing — you can have great discipleship programs, you can have apostolic leaders, you can have organic structures — but without the absolute centrality of Jesus as Lord, it all becomes just another human institution.

How have churches strayed from this?

In so many ways. We've substituted cultural Christianity for actual allegiance to Jesus. We've made church about personal preference — what worship style do I like, what programs serve my family, what theology makes me comfortable. But the lordship of Jesus confronts all of that. It says: this isn't about you. It's about him and his mission in the world.

I've seen churches that are incredibly sophisticated organizationally but have completely lost the plot on Jesus. They have great branding, great music, great kids' programs — but there's no prophetic edge, no missional urgency, no willingness to sacrifice comfort for the sake of the gospel. That happens when Jesus is the mascot rather than the Lord.

What does it look like to put "Jesus Is Lord" back at the center?

It starts with discipleship. You have to form people who take Jesus' actual teachings seriously — not just the nice ones about love, but the hard ones about money, power, enemies, and sacrifice. The Sermon on the Mount isn't aspirational poetry — it's the constitution of the kingdom.

Second, it means rethinking church governance. If Jesus is the head of the church, then our organizational structures should reflect his priorities, not corporate America's. Third, it means mission. A church that confesses "Jesus Is Lord" but never leaves its building to serve the neighborhood is contradicting its own confession.

That's a clarion call for the church today. Thank you, Alan.

Thank you, Cynthia. Keep daring to multiply.