Discipleship is About Taking Jesus Seriously with Alan Hirsch

Welcome to Think Global, Do Justice. Today I'm joined by a truly remarkable guest — Alan Hirsch, author, missiologist, and one of the most influential voices in the missional movement. Alan, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Brandon. It's great to be here with you.

Alan, let's dive right in. What does it mean to be a gospel-centered church, and should we even be striving for that?

Well, I think the question itself reveals how far we've drifted. Of course we should be gospel-centered — but we need to understand what that actually means. It doesn't mean we just preach the gospel as a message. It means we embody the gospel as a way of life. The gospel is not just an announcement; it's an invitation into a completely different way of being human.

You've argued that we've short-changed discipleship by making Matthew 28 all about evangelism. Can you unpack that?

Yes, absolutely. What we're experiencing now in America is a trend in the church where we've reduced the Great Commission to simply making converts. But Jesus said "make disciples" — and there's a world of difference between a convert and a disciple. A convert agrees with a set of propositions. A disciple reorganizes their entire life around Jesus.

Growing up as a Jewish person in apartheid South Africa, I saw firsthand what happens when religion becomes disconnected from the actual teachings of its founder. If the churches that we lead do not disciple, we will produce bad religion. We are not producing Christ-likeness in our churches. And that should alarm us.

That's a strong claim. What does genuine discipleship look like in practice?

The image of God is reflected in Jesus' way of being human. That's the template. So discipleship isn't about getting people to attend more programs or memorize more verses — though those things aren't bad. It's about forming people into the likeness of Christ. It's about learning to love the way Jesus loved, to see the world the way Jesus saw it, to respond to suffering and injustice the way Jesus did.

Modern churches need to align more closely with Jesus' teachings. The consequences of poor discipleship can be detrimental to faith communities. We've seen this play out — when people call themselves Christians but their lives look nothing like Christ, it actually damages the witness of the church.

Are there examples of modern Christians getting this right?

Absolutely. I see it in house church movements, in missional communities, in places where people are actually doing life together — sharing meals, caring for the poor, taking risks for the sake of the gospel. Churches must focus on producing genuine followers of Christ. That's the measure of success — not attendance numbers, not building campaigns, but whether we're actually forming people who look like Jesus.

That's a powerful word for the church today. Alan, thank you so much for joining us.

My pleasure. Keep up the great work with this podcast.